Saturday, March 10, 2007

News Update from ABQ – Part 2

The Upgraded VLJ

By Jim McKlain Journal Staff Writer

ALBUQUERQUE, NM - Eclipse Aviation president and CEO Vern Raburn announced this past Tuesday a major effort to improve various aspects of the Eclipse 500, the company’s flagship Very Light Jet (VLJ).

In a press conference, held at Double Eagle Airport, dozens of Eclipse employees gathered around a sandy vacant lot, scheduled to become the first facility establishing a permanent presence at the blossoming air facility.

“We are pleased to announce a complete and comprehensive upgrade program to our already overwhelmingly popular Eclipse 500 VLJ”, boasted a gleaming Raburn. “We have listened to feedback from our customers and are determined to make our loyal customer base a satisfied bunch indeed.”

The improvements are significant and wide ranging, and include such highlights as additional paint trim colors, an increased selection of interior color options, a dual-redundant computerized auto-deploy air freshener canister (free with the sixth seat toilet conversion kit), interior “mood” lighting, spinner hubcaps, and the ever popular “Under Aircraft LED Light Kit” (available in “Razor Red”, “NG Prism Blue” and “Glam Green”).

“We feel that our customers have clearly spoken and demand such improvements - we are confident that on close inspection, all of the Nay-Sayers of the industry will realize that we are making significant upgrades on these significant upgrades. We are working diligently to have all of these available by mid summer, with the exception of the Next Generation “Prism Blue” kit, which seems to be somewhat more challenging. We are working with our key vendors on targeting that specific upgrade for early next year, but are sure the pilot community will understand and find it well worth the wait. In the mean time, we will be supplying “Razor Red” kits in lieu of “NG Prism Blue”, but will update all affected aircraft at no cost to the consumer.” Raburn followed up energetically with “This is an excellent deal for everyone and represents significant progress on our side!”

When asked about recent developments, such as major vendors, once again, backing out of key supplier positions, Raburn quoted “It’s a hard fact - the MTBF of the LED option alone increases from the HVGH from under 50 to well over 200. This is a substantial improvement we feel is key – there is no way the prehistoric dinosaurs of our industry would dare push the edge this far. This is clearly why we will succeed where so many others have failed.”

As the presentation went on, several employees seemed to wander off, apparently in search of old bottle caps littering the adjacent field. “They make good wind chimes, and Ned is trying to collect them for his cub-scout pack”, stated one, somewhat weary Eclipse employee.

Appearing irritated by his own employee’s irrational lack of interest, Raburn, with folded arms and making subtle clicking noises into microphone, patiently waited while Andrew Broom, Eclipse spokesman, dashed from the podium and attempted to round up the straying employees. In confronting one intently focused group apparently attempting to teach each other to “snap” bottle caps to make them fly like little Frisbees, Broom was unsuccessful in getting their attention, even while flailing his arms frantically and hissing something about “The boss man”. However, he had better luck with several stray loners that were eventually herded back to the podium.

Resuming, apparently un-phased, Raburn continued with his speech for another two and a half hours, going into detail as to the importance of each upgrade. At one point, he extensively detailed one of their concerns about a major decision they were currently negotiating with the FAA involving which side of the cockpit they should install the independent third cup-holder. “It’s surprising the amount of analysis required of the regulatory basis for seemingly simple decisions like this. It’s not just a quick “right or left” call. Important factors such as open platform compatibility and expandability need to be addressed. It’s actually a lot harder than anyone could have possibly foreseen.”

As the day wore on and on, the small group of employees, standing in the hot Albuquerque sun, got more and more agitated. At one point, one frail female employee, later identified as 87 year old “Ruby”, muttered “bite me Raburn” and walked over to an adjacent hanger and sat down in the shade, clearly unimpressed.

From that point on, the tension seemed to rise, reaching a crescendo when Raburn was hit forcefully on his left temple with a high speed bottle cap. Quickly limping to his vehicle he was heard muttering “But I just give and give, no one appreciates me.”. As he sped off, the sound of hundreds of whizzing bottle caps could be heard ricocheting off the back of his car.

Mr. Broom was found several hours later wrapped in duct-tape and hung out on the water tower just outside the main hanger facilities

Thanks again to metal guy for sharing this very important report.

49 comments:

Stan Blankenship said...

metal guy,

I understand in preparation for a possible delivery ceremony today, the grounds have been scoured for bottle caps.

Eclipse officials are taking no chances for a repeat event today and have even discussed the possibility of doing a pat down search of all position holders as a safety measure to ensure they are not carrying objects that could do bodily harm to Mr. Raburn.

bill e. goat said...

The pen (or blog) is mightier than the sword.
Still, Vern, check six!!!

Metal Guy said...

I also heard a new company policy was being issued that under no circumstances shall duct tape be allowed in the facilities. Seems to make sense given the recent events.

gadfly said...

It took awhile to find “McKlain’s” article in the evening edition of the “Albuquerque Journal”, but finally in section “D”, there it was between the obituaries and the “Home Despot ad”.

gadfly

(What do you mean there’s no evening edition of the Journal?)

Gunner said...

What with all the advance hype on the board, has anybody seen this new WonderJet today?
Any announcements?

I mean, I don't wish to get ugly, but this is one of the two aircraft that we were promised the week of Feb 12 (Just before Training and PC), no?

Were any of the rest of us to be this far off in claims, the comments would be:
"That's not right"
"You're wrong"
"That's a lie"

Each would be uttered in Triumphant Vindication.

So, can anyone tell me if this aircraft was certified today?

Ken?
KAD1?

Gunner

Ken Meyer said...

gunner wrote,
"So, can anyone tell me if this aircraft was certified today?"


Gunner, the aircraft in question was not certified today; that occurred yesterday.

Ken

airtaximan said...

Gunner,
the schedule revealed to us yesterday, was that delivery of 2 planes would occur today. Thes planes promised, like you said in February, but really promised in 2006, previous to that they were promised in the 2003 timeframe.

Anyway...

my impression is that E-clips might want to lay back a little on the hype regarding delivering another plane or two.

someone wmight have told them that no self-respecting-aviation-ccompany does a press release each and every time a plane is delivered.

but then again, this seems to be real cause for celebration among the die-hards...and one can understand why.

there ws the real possibility they would NEVER see another delivery from E-clips.

Pop another e-cork.

Anyone know if the promised delivery was made today?

airtaximan said...

REMINDER FROM THE e5c MEETING THE OTHER DAY:

"First and foremost, Vern is very optimistic that the delivery schedule published last week will be met. The FAA is on premise and well into the inspection process for COA on three to five aircraft in the next few days, and on schedule for 10 in March and then about 1 every two days in April."

Look for 3-5 aircraft deliveries in the next few days (CofAs really) from March 9th...plus, plus, plus...

Any takers (with inside info from the factory floor, perhaps?) regarding bets for actual deliveries (remember, these are deliveries, now...) in March?

Gunner said...

Ken-
It DID get delivered, yesterday?
Kewl. Why no press, announcement or owner statement?

The second one needs only be delivered on the week of February 12th, 2007 to make the last "news leak" believable.

I just can't wait to see how this gets done. ;-)
Gunner

Planet eX said...

I'm curious as to how long the FAA will continue to send people to ABQ to certify individual aircraft.

Without a PC, Eclipse is going to have one big-ass problem sooner or later.

airtaximan said...

planet X,

I'm curious about Vern's remark that "The FAA is on premise and well into the inspection process for COA on three to five aircraft in the next few days"

From what I've been told, they don't just show up, and begin to look around for aircraft to certify. There's a plan...

How many aircraft were they asked to inspect for CofA? 3, 4, 5...more?

Also, when they do not grant the CofA on planes you ask them to inspect, they leave with the attitude that YOU don't know what you're doing...and they become MORE diligent and less trusting.

So, how many was it...2,3,4,5..more? How many passed?

I'm sure someone whose been paying attention to this can estimate. WHen they certified Crowes/Sandana's/E-clipse's lease back plane...how many more were "ready" and failed then?

This all makes a big difference.

mouse said...

The FAA will come to ABQ and certify each aircraft as necessary... It's their job. They will work to their own schedule, but they are under huge pressure from Washington to "make it happen" at all costs... The FAA has a lot of egg on it's face because of the whole Eclipse mess. They too believed Vern and have been beat up bad for it... Even a rumor about a Congressional investigation regarding E-Nuff/Eclipse...

cherokee driver said...

Vern should be careful who he "delivers" aircraft to. The press might get a hold of one and leak some real numbers and capabilities. Do you have to sign a non-disclosure agreement to take delivery? Maybe he's counting on the fact that the new owner can't get the training required to fly his new plane any way. He wouldn't want to scare off position holders willing to cough up another progress payment.

airtaximan said...

mouse,

imagine you were a congressperson and you were told NASA needed funds for the developemnt of new technologies to advance general aviation and develop an air taxi system.

Imagine you put up hundreds of millions for say, the development of a revolutionary small lightweight fuel efficient turbofan engine...and THEN, A CABADIAN COMPANY GOT THE CONTRACT to supply hundreds, or thousands of their engines instead of the one you funded.

What if you were asked to contribute to advanced technologies that made it easier to fly these planes... and provided funds for glass cockpit development...only to have the "cutting edge" supplier of your poster-child airplane development program FAIL, and the manufacturer switched to COTS systems?

Imagine, other companies came along, like Cessna and developed their own planes that were not relaint on one bit of the technology (like composites) you also paid for.

Imagine, the CEO of the company NASA has been flogging with your funding for almost 10 years, makes statements that result in the FAA demanding increased budgets in order to accomodate "so many planes they will blacken the skies"... and create problems in congested airspace, when you were told to provide hundreds of millions for a small aircraft system that would alleviate such congestion?

How would you feel if your agency, the FAA somehow began to "promote" that a plane was certified many months prior to actually recieving certification? in the face of companies like Cessna/Textron, or Raytheon who actually obtain certification prior to any BS celebrating?

Lastly, companies using Cessna Caravans and Cirrus SR22s are providing taxi service today, not relying on much of the government spending at all.

At some point, would you not ask for an investigation?

This is really a big mess... probably more than most people realize.

How would you feel? Congress has spent hundreds of millions on programs, backed by NASA for over ten years. None of it resulted in the benefits that were supposed to be derived from the funding. in fact, searches for Eclipse Aviation and NASA reveal the nature of the relationship, and despite there being at leasst a dozen planes and development programs out there today, many air taxi operators inluding newer servies by Cirrus, none has been the poster-child for the government spending that Eclipse was.

I would not be surprised if you were correct and there was an investigation.

How do you know this?

bill e. goat said...

ATM,
Right-o.

My Rant (rant-rating, 90%):

NASA is an anacryonism, a vestige of the cold war.

DARPA smokes them, with easily a 10:1 "kill ratio" (taxpayer payback), probably much higher, on "bang for the buck", and COMMERCIAL application return on the taxpayer's dollar.

DoD smokes NASA too, I would say easily 5:1 on COMMERCIAL payoff for taxpayer dollars spent on MILITARY R&D.

Heck, probably the FAA modernization spending payoff beats NASA , I would expect by a factor of 2:1 or more. And that's not saying much.

Eclipse, building an aluminum airplane, R&D partially paid for indirectly by NASA (although they will vehemently deny it), has failed to deliver. Throw in state and local tax concessions and loans, what a soaking the taxpayer has taken from the GAPS debacle.

Let's build a moon base, let's go to Mars. I think Eclipse and NASA should be congratulated though, for inventing a "green machine" that runs on- while not renewable, none the less- non-depletable fuel: Franklins, although it will also run on low-octane Jacksons and Hamiltons.

Stan Blankenship said...

No news of any Saturday deliveries in ABQ. Probably a good thing Frank didn't head down I-40.

This msg was left on the EOB for the faithful:


Dear Eclipse Customers:

We are very excited to inform you that Eclipse 500 AC3 received its Certificate of Airworthiness from the FAA today. The owner will take delivery this weekend, but wishes to remain anonymous, so we will not be holding a media event.

It is important to note that while we are currently obtaining a Certificates of Airworthiness to deliver Eclipse 500s under the Type Certificate, we continue to work the parallel path and we are gaining momentum in obtaining our Production Certificate.

After over seven years of endless effort, it is gratifying to begin the newest journey of customer deliveries and service.

Sincerely,

Vern Raburn
President & CEO
Eclipse Aviation

airtaximan said...

Knowing E-clips....

Vern was customer number 2.

Kidding, of course.

I thought there were 2 deliveries? With a total of between 3-5 in the "next few days"?

Hmm...

Well, good for them. they are certifying planes, delivering them to paying customers who are taking the planes in whatever condition and with whatever functionality is available.

This says a lot for the customers.
I wonder what the lease-back rate and term is?

Stan Blankenship said...

From the faa.gov website, here are the tail numbers reserved for the initial production serial numbers:

001 N508JA DELIVERED
002 N126DJ
003 N816KD C of A 03/09/07
004 N229BW
005 N504RS
006 N109DJ
007 N110DJ
008 N941NC
009 N513EA
010 N500VK
011 N777VE
012 N651FC
013 N317BH
014 N705PT
015 N515MP
016 N15ND
017 N17AE
018 N875NA
019 N519EA
020 N115DJ
021 N116DJ
022 N119DJ
023 N130DJ
024 N561EA
025 N546BW
026 N612KB
027 N502LT
028 N963JG
029 N55BX
030 N768JF
031 N531EA
032 N80TF
033 N131DJ
034 N132DJ
035 N134DJ
036 N135DJ
037 N136DJ
038 UNASSIGNED
039 N858GS
040 N444RL
041 N541LB
042 N168TT
043 N62RC
044 N489JC
045 UNASSIGNED
046 6100 (?)
047 UNASSIGNED
048 N570RG
049 N549AF
050 N456MF
051 UNASSIGNED
052 N502ET
053 UNASSIGNED
054 N139DJ
055 N141DJ

There are a few later serial numbers with tail assignment, but no more delta-juliets which is the point of this comment.

Out of the first 55 units, 14 appear to be reserved for DayJet.

Without 135 capability, hard to imagine DayJet accepting the airplanes.

And I couldn't find a kilo-mike or a sierra-kilo in there. Ken, I thought for sure you would be one of the early ones.

airtaximan said...

DAyjet will need planes for training, photo op/marketing, proving runs, etc...

maybe the will take them?

Any thoughts...

ColdWetMackarelofReality said...

Congrats to Eclipse for getting a 2nd CofA, and in less than 3 months.

Also interesting, there are 4 of the first 55 ending EA which sound like possible Eclipse aircraft.

Also interesting, 5 of the first 55 are UNASSIGNED.

So almost half of the first 55 aircraft (23) are headed to DayJet, possibly Eclipse, or unassigned.

My put is DayJet accepts one aircraft and starts showing it off to their club members (think photo ops at the various 'Dayports') - without installed and certified 135 equipment and training, they cannot begin proving runs or any other work they need to get their 135 certificate.

Kudo's to MetalGuy - his parodies are getting better!

Ken Meyer said...

Stan wrote,
"Without 135 capability, hard to imagine DayJet accepting the airplanes."


Yeah, but...

What exactly would the airplanes need to be Part 135-compliant? That's where your answer lies.

Ken

Ken Meyer said...

Stan wrote,
"And I couldn't find a kilo-mike or a sierra-kilo in there. Ken, I thought for sure you would be one of the early ones."


Depends on how you define "early." It's probably not a great idea to get the first of any new plane off the line.

Interesting thing is that for most new planes, S/N 30 or so is plenty of initial experience for the company. But it seems to me that experience comes in unit numbers and calendar time, so I'm no so sure the conventional wisdom can be applied directly to the Eclipse.

Ken

bill e. goat said...

I would expect the aircraft delivered this weekend to be showpieces only.

Anyone think they'll leave the ABQ complex, except for PR stunts?

I'm mildly enthused about the final product, due "later this year", but these things...it is pretty Vern of Eclipse to push them out the door.

Having them break down at remote airports, or get stranded under IFR conditions with marginal avionics?, I just don't see it playing out that way. Maybe some local owner, very local, or I suspect a "lease back" is under the table.

Well, I suppose some sort of congratulations are in order none the less. Sort of like after first flight. Both of them. This seems similar to those sad stunts- not progress, but the illusion of progress.

Not sour grapes, just disappointed (but not surprised), that Eclipse UP'EM (UPpEr Management) would try to foist these things on anybody.

The FAA "playing ball" again? Guess some calls do DC were made. Marion coming out for a photo op or something?

Stan Blankenship said...

Ken,

Here is the problem with a later delivery.

When Mr. X takes delivery of 003, he will only be writing a check for about $450k. Same for the next 40 or 50, maybe more.

These airplanes will cost Eclipse over $2m to build plus all the expenses that are ongoing for redesign, retrofit and re-certification.

Just how long do you think the company can sustain itself with these kinds of losses?

Vern might have Bill Gates phone number in his back pocket but why would any astute investor put in more money when there is no relief for the bleeding in sight?

Gunner said...

You guys, I swear.

Y'all act like Eclipse holds a press conference or ribbon cutting every time there's the least bit of news to hype.

Well, OK, maybe they do. But did you ever think that maybe, just MAYBE, they've changed? Then again, perhaps they hesitated to publicly rejoice over this latest "milestone" for other reasons.

Gunner

Ken Meyer said...

Stan wrote,
"Vern might have Bill Gates phone number in his back pocket but why would any astute investor put in more money when there is no relief for the bleeding in sight?"


Probably because, in the immortal words of the IS&S CEO, "Sunshine Bakeries doesn't have an orderbook like Eclipse." :)

Ken

Gunner said...

Sunshine Bakeries is also a fictitious company.

;-)
Gunner

bill e. goat said...

...I thought they made lemondrops...

:)

airtaximan said...

Ken,

I wondered what that quote ws designed to accomplish, and now, thanks to you, I think I understand the point.
1- there's really no sunshine bakery
2- a bakery has real orders, and they are ongoing for persihable and consumable products normally produced by a bakery
3- Vern has deposits, which no one would need to make for baked goods orders
4- Elcipse plane might in fact be perishable and consumable, more than one would expect from an aircraft company
5- Eclipse has more deposits than a bakery, but a bakery has more orders than e-clips

point is, YOU will make of it what you wish....whichis your deposit-placing-god-given-right

Welcome to America where hot-cross-buns could be analogous to aircraft, AND where everyone has the god given right to get screwed.

what position number did you buy? I would like to know when to send you a bakers-dozen bagels as a consolation prize? I want to make sure you get MORe than what you paid for.

Planet eX said...

Ken Meyer wrote...
Stan wrote,
"Without 135 capability, hard to imagine DayJet accepting the airplanes."

Yeah, but...

What exactly would the airplanes need to be Part 135-compliant? That's where your answer lies.



Well, for one they are going to need that pesky third artificial horizon (FAR 135.149) and any other equipment that the Administer requires.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, they are going to have to dispatch with everything working on the aircraft as there is only a Part 91 MMEL for the aircraft.

BTW, Dayjet has a Part 135 certificate.

airtaximan said...

PLanet X, what does this mean?

"BTW, Dayjet has a Part 135 certificate."

What's the relevance to having E-500s added to their certificate??

airtaximan said...

News Update from ABQ – Part 3

Important Milestone - Delivery number 2

By Bob McKlain (Jim’s brother) Journal Staff Writer

ALBUQUERQUE, NM – Sunday March 11, 2007

Vern Raburn Eclipse President and CEO announced today that despite rumors that Eclipse could not deliver airplanes, Eclipse second certified aircraft was delivered today. Well almost.

Under a veil of secrecy, the ceremony that was to take place at the factory was postponed. Perhaps indefinitely. Initially, Mr. Raburn was supposed to hand over the keys to the as-yet-to-be-disclosed-buyer, but the buyer did not make it to the ceremony.

Bob McKlain received the invitation to the ceremony which promised a personal appearance of position-holder-number-3 who was gong to step in to receive the aircraft in place of DJ, the designated position-holder number-2, who apparently did not want or could not afford to take the plane, despite arranging $50,000,000 in financing the week before.

A letter to invitees from Mr. Raburn explained the following:

Dear ceremonial Eclipse keys handing over attendees. Unfortunately, we had arranged for position-holder number 3 to take DJ’s airplane in a grand ceremony today, since it’s been so long since our first delivery, despite p[romises of many deliveries so far. This second delivery is perhaps our greatest accomplishment to date, as it replaces about 50 aircraft we promised to deliver by now – so, the celebration we planned was indeed grand. Probably befitting 50 airplane deliveries! It would have been terrific.

We decided just now to put off the delivery, not because the plane did not receive a C of A, and not because the plane really does not meet guarantees, and not because the plane has very limited utility due to cracking and inspection intervals – we leased back the plane so the owner will make money with this plane, not matter what.

Also, we offered to upgrade whatever needs to be working properly in order for him to have a functioning airplane, not a mock up. Upon receiving such asssurances, and stipulation the retrofits, upgrades and fixes would be at our cost, he assured Eclipse Aviation Corporation that he was satisfied, in writing. Well, he did not object in writing, so we made him take the plane.

In sum, the blame goes squarely on the customer. YES, it’s HIS FAULT. For the first time (another first, I might add) Eclipse is NOT blaming a supplier. This time it’s the customer who is to blame.

We now understand that somehow the customer refused to make a public appearance to accept his plane. We offered, and he did not reject the following customer-focused solution in order to arrange a proud key-handing-over experience.

Let's reflect on history for some context: does anyone remember “the unknown comic”? He wore a paper bag over his head while on stage so that no one could ever recognize him? We offer this as a solution for customer-number-3 who was taking customer-number-2’s (DJ's) position, and we thought he was completely OK with it.

Unfortunately for all you dedicated employees, suppliers and customers, he did not show. As I said before, It is his fault.

Available for comment was CEO of Avidyne Corporation Dan Schwinn and VP of training for United Ailrines, who somehow both removed their paper bags from their heads and simultaneously said: we’re not surprised customer-number-3 did not want to be associated with this program at this point...we spent $300,000 on legal fees just to get Vern off our back and get out of this program. As part of the legal settlement Vern made us agree to be on hand for delivery ceremonies like this, but we were promised hors D’oeuvres and cocktails. The customer was supposed to show, and you’d think that if ex-suppliers could come, take off their bags and show their faces, the customer would be here to take the keys?

In a wild twist, Andrew Broom was seen being duct-taped to the main gear of the deliverable aircraft by Mr. Raburn who was shouting “ you can’t quit, you are in it for the long haul – they are your customers and from now on, they WILL show up to take their planes when I say they will. NO refunds… and no more paper bags. They will show their faces - it's in the contract"

Lloyd said...

Also to be 135 compliant they needed to have the database updatable for the GPS. I believe this and the Standby Artificial Horizon has been accomplished. There should be no reason for DayJet not to accept their airplanes.

Gunner said...

Maybe DayJet pilots-to-be went on strike until someone delivers them planes that can be flown when the TV fails? Dinosaur planes with independent, backup instruments.

Nah!

Gunner

Plastic_Planes said...

CWMOR:
Also interesting, there are 4 of the first 55 ending EA which sound like possible Eclipse aircraft.

Actually, the EA would be assigned by E-Clips when the customer either doesn't specify a tail number or requests E-Clips to obtain one thru the FAA on their behalf. They would not be "company" planes.

/s/

airtaximan said...

lloyd, I'm sure you are right.
I cannaot figure out why they did NOT take their plane.

Perhaps the downtime associated with the mods is a problem, or the fact that somehow they will need to change their opspec and paperwork to comply when the avionics and mod changes occur? Maybe retrining witht he new avionics? MAybe a dweetheart deal with the understanding theor pilots cannot be trained anytime soon so why take the plane? Window fix intervlas still a big issue? Fleet financing for this POS plane?

Curious

Gunner said...

PP-
Just in Case any of you depositors are interested in a better (shorter) "vanity" number, the following are yours for the asking:

N46EA
N68EA
N71EA
N76EA
N78EA
N85EA

Get 'em before they become collectors' items!
Gunner

mouse said...

Isn't it curious... DayJet signed up well after the first 2300 orders were received, again after 2002, yet they have such early positions... Hmmm....

And why is it the FAA is issuing C of A's on the weekend? They do not work on the weekend for anyone else...

Hmmm.....

Planet eX said...

airtaximan wrote...
PLanet X, what does this mean?

"BTW, Dayjet has a Part 135 certificate."

What's the relevance to having E-500s added to their certificate??


Nothing much except they are probably half-way there. However, I'm trying to figure out how they got a Part 135 without any aircraft.

They are an optimistic bunch - 637 reserved N numbers.

airtaximan said...

planet X:

I proposed that of the 2500 or so "orders" Dayjet has at leats half. You noticed the 637 reserved N nimbers...why do they claim to have only around half that on order from E-clips - 239 plus 70.

Nice cover up.

The part 135 can be from anywhere - you can literally BUY a 135 certificate...BUT you needto add planes, and the OSpec and planes must be compliant. In this case, the PART 145 is not for E-plains...

They have a sister company called Wingedfoot which has operated some jets for years as part 135 charter, when they are not using them for personal use under 91.

So, they will have to develop a 135 or the E-clips planes...

Just my opinion from 41,000 ft...well, 24,000ft anyway

airtaximan said...

mouse,

make no mistake about it...Dayjet is an inside job. You point out some interesting stuff. Imagine if you had a deposit and actually wanted your early plane, and you found out Vern handed the slot to his buddy?

Also, how come Dayjet does not HAVE to take its delivery of E-2? If it was YOUR deposit or say (Aviance) you would lose it or end up in a lawsuit.

This is pure racketeering, fraud..you name it.

Someone must look into it.

Ken Meyer said...

airtaximan wrote,
"I proposed that of the 2500 or so "orders" Dayjet has at leats half....
Just my opinion from 41,000 ft."


The number of orders and options Dayjet has is public knowledge, and it is nowhere near half the Eclipse orders. The 41,000 feet has gotten to you; you better get on oxygen.

Ken

airtaximan said...

Ken,

State what the number is, and tomorrow, I will send Stan documents that refelect the dayjet orders in relation to all orders.

What is your 100% sure number for Dayjet's orders and options?

Thanks.

This will be very funny.

airtaximan said...

Ken,

why didn't Dayjet HAVE to take plane number 2?

what is their penalty?

Aviace-like lawsuit coming?

Splash some cold-wet stuff on your face....wakey-wakey

REALITY is going to set in fast....

It's OK.

"you can't handle the truth" Jack Nicholson

Kaptain Kool-Aid said...

Ken Meyer said...

"...in the immortal words of the IS&S CEO, "Sunshine Bakeries doesn't have an orderbook like Eclipse."


Gunner said...

"Sunshine Bakeries is also a fictitious company."


Perhaps, he was referring to Sunshine Biscuit, Inc., which merged with the Keebler Company in 1996. Keebler was then acquired by cereal giant, Kellogg Company, in 2001.

bill e. goat said...

"...I thought they made lemondrops..."


No, they make Cheez-Its and Krispy Saltine Crackers... both of which are chem-milled to be thin and crispy ;-)

Gunner said...

KKA said:
"Perhaps, he was referring to Sunshine Biscuit, Inc."
Yep, it mighta been code. But then, "perhaps" he was referring to a little known public company of the 50's, International Business Machines.

And "Perhaps" you and I think pigs can fly...well, I think we've individually answered that question. ;-)

BTW, did I mention that "Sunshine Bakeries" is fictitious? I should mention that.

Gunner

mouse said...

Stan, very interesting. From the FAA's website today:

http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/nameSQL.asp?nametxt=dayjet&sort_option=5&page=13

FAA Registry
Name Inquiry Results

Name Entered : DAYJET
Sorted by Name
Number of Records: 637 (Page 13 of 13)

There are 637 N-Numbers reserved by DayJet. There is no manufacturer associated with any of them, however they are planning on some growth... and now know where at least $6,370 of the money has gone...

mouse said...

There could very well be many reasons that DayJet did not take their 1st plane. Perhaps the stories Vern is telling about the condition and equipage of the plane is "Not Exactly"...

Perhaps DayJets FSDO is requiring equipment and funtionality that the plane does not currently posses.

Is the plane equipped with a funtioning weather radar Yet? If not, than the plane may not be dispatched in actual or forecasted convective activity, which in Florida is an hourly occurence about 90% of the time...

Perhaps DayJet is not ready to demonstrate the plane for its required proving runs, which are typically 75 hours. Since the windshields and side transparencies may require replacement within this window and delay the run to a longer period that they want to risk.

Perhaps DayJet knows (and Vern) that the plane cannot handle 75 hours of flight in between significant issues or problems...

Perhaps nobody will insure the plane for Part 135 use yet?

Perhaps DayJet is coming to their senses and looking at TBM's or PC-12's which are fully functional, and their equipment is proven and working very well?

Perhaps there are more lies yet lurking around the corner???

Cheese in a trap really isn't edible, at least not without a huge risk which to the smartest, is not worth the danger/risk just yet...

Squeak

mouse said...

Ken,

I would not be quoting press releases as fact or proving actual numbers.. They are just releases of information that someone wants to reveal.

Vern has made lots of press releases, and most of them were not correct, accurate or true.

Sometimes companies keep their plans and operations close to the vest to gain the jump on competition.

And I'm really curious why anyone would order 239 airplanes? Not 230 - 240, but 239... Me smells a rat. Maybe the total announced of 309 means something, or a favorite number? Who knows, and who really cares. The fact is if you come to Vern with enough orders, or if Vern comes to you and asks you to appear to place a big order, to achive something we do not yet know, you can get any S/N's you want...

Or if you are big enough you can refuse to take your planes...

Or perhaps the agreement with DayJet was crafted with enough forsight on DayJets part to specify not taking any plane(s) until they are 100% "as advertised" functional.

Individuals without board of directors or fleet financing can waive functionality, but a smart business man wanting to "do it right" would not.

You only get one chance to steart a business and do it right, from the start. Very rarely does number #1 start out that way. In fact typically the 1st attempt fails, and the remaining players (Mfgs) learn the lessons of the eraly entry and improve their product...