Thursday, June 21, 2007

DayJet Rates

“…those who need to leave within the hour might pay $4 per mile…”At that rate, a 350 mile trip will cost $2,800.00.

You might as well charter a King Air or Citation, have the entire plane, for the whole day. The plane will be waiting for you when you get there, both ends, take you there non-stop, in private, in a cabin 3 times the size, in a proven aircraft, plus you can take 5 friends, family or business associates with you at no additional cost.

Two people on this (DayJet) trip is a no-brainer, $5,600.00….

Way better off chartering.

A roundtrip ride in a tiny jet across the state of Florida…$2,800.00

Membership fee for the privilege of over paying for a ride in the tiny jet…$450

Cleaning bill for yellow stain on your suit… $22

The Look on a strangers face while you Pee in a bottle … priceless


cj3driver, you amuse us all...

And not to be outdone, a37pilot had more:

New Air Taxi comes to Florida

Flight to begin, soon

BY UGOTTO B. KIDDING

THE FLORIDA SHADE

GAINESVILLE- A another new air-taxi service has just announced plans to begin operations in Florida.

Fly By Night jets will pick up travelers outside the fence of several yet to be announced airports in Florida.

The big difference between the company’s “per seat, on demand” flights and other recently announced air taxis in the Sunshine state is cost. Fly By Night costs more, a lot more.

Officals at FBN speaking on the condition of anonymity say they want to take the yet untried air taxi business to a new level. “ We saw our competition preparing to charge high prices for unreliable service in marginal aircraft and thought we can do better, we’ll charge obnoxiously high prices”, said one of the principles.

“It’s all about optimization, we aren’t really an aircraft operator or a computer company, or really a company at all , were just a bunch of guys who want to make some quick bucks”, said another. We just look at what the other guys say and come up with something that’s a little more over the top. For example, take their ant farmer Russian scientists that figure out the scheduling, we have some of those guys too, but we got them to let the ants out of the farm so they could run around. Now that’s what I call disruptive.

Asked about their plan to blanket the skies with the revolutionary Albuquerque wonder jet and details on there recently announced order for 2500 jets, the director of operations replied, “ We figured why not, I mean where else can you get a 2 million dollar jet with only a $25 deposit. We were going to order 5000 but we didn’t want to appear ostentatious “.

FBN recently announced they had received $60 million in start up financing from a group of investors who admittedly didn’t really know what an air taxi was but thought anything with little jet airplanes had to be “cool”.

FNB CFO, Dewy Cheatum, commented, “They bought the whole program, hook line and VLJ. It plays into our strategy of get their confidence, get their trust, and get their money, but most of all, get the money”. "It's really not about the flying as much as it is about blowing the investors money."

Florida aviation officials when asked about airport traffic congestion concerns with so many small aircraft moving around said, “Whatever, we’ll leave it to the operators to figure it out. We’re just glad to have another black hole to throw some of the state tax dollars into”.

18 comments:

FlightCenter said...

From the same article

"Planes can make up to one stop to pick up other passengers, he said, but agree to stay no longer than 20 minutes."

There is no possibility that folks will pay a premium to sit on the ground, in the sun, in the summer, in Florida, for 20 minutes waiting for the next passenger to get on the plane.

What happens if the other passenger is late? Say the meeting runs late, or the passenger gets caught in traffic. Does DayJet leave without him? Or do they wait just "a bit" till he arrives?

Either way it is guaranteed that at least one passenger will be pretty upset with DayJet.

DayJet Flights are quick, pricey

DayJet Flights are quick - NOT!

Stan Blankenship said...

A picture is emerging. Here is a summary of the delivery predictions thus far for '07:

Tot. blogger
---- --------
035 niner zulu

036 jetprop jockey

038 a37pilot

039 Freedomsjamtarts

042 shane price

050 flightguy

050 oldtroll

056 plastic_planes

057 gunner

068 buckerfan

073 sparky

075 mouse

084 coldwetmackarelofreality

105 airtaximan

120 stan

130 cj3driver

131 flightcenter

150 flightfollowing

158 aeroobserver

176 eclipseblogger

180 execlipser

188 mirage00

200 alexa

200 Vern

234 andy

The prediction list is open for changes or new numbers until the end of this month.

Bonanza Pilot said...

Put me down for 90 "deliveries" Of those 90 I figure maybe 15 that are not tethered to the home base. No AvioNfG this year at all...but the pitot problem fixed by Oshkosh.

Bonanza Pilot said...

CJ3....read that article in the Ocala paper as well....do you think they mean $4 bucks a mile for the entire plane?? And if you pay the 4 bucks are you still subject to the stop to pick up another (hopefully skinny, female and beautiful) customer...that would add a good 30 to 40 minutes to your 1 hour flight easily....I had heard 3 bucks an hour as the top price - these numbers just don't make any sense. Imagine that you want to go with three people!!! Would that be $3600 bucks for a one hour flight???? At least they wouldn't stop to pick anyone up because the plane would be full!

airtaximan said...

"The range of prices is based on the flexibility of travel times... and the availability of planes."

The avialability of planes drives the price, as well... hmm...think about this.

I'm a member...right? I pay a membership fee... and if YOU don't have enough planes, I pay MORE for the service.

airtaximan said...

bonanza..

remember... they also state that they agree to limit the stop to 20 minutes.

Where's LArry the Cable Guy when you need him -

NOW THAT'S funny right there...

JetProp Jockey said...

AirTaxiMan posted the link to an article about DayJet on the previous thread.

The one comment was that by paying for a $250 membership you can avoid the security checks.

What Security Checks are they talking about?

I have questioned the economics of DayJet (and Eclipse) since I first read about their model.

Last evening I heard a friend of mine commenting, "I was going to Hilton Head (from PA) but the best price I could get was $400 for a round trip and I'm not going to pay that kind of money to fly."

DayJet, even at $1 per mile would be about $1400 round trip.

I also think they will most likely be using statute miles for pricing, possibly highway miles.

Bottom line, about 98% of Americans are too cheap to fly DayJet - I don't think the other 2%, many of whom are already flying charter or personal aircraft will support the program.

Another question I have not seen addressed is if you agree to the 4 hour window, must you be sitting at the DayPort for those 4 hours or will you be given a certain number of minutes to get there when they are ready to depart. I don't think that the guy who is willing to pay $4 per mile to leave right now will be impressed with waiting 45 minutes for the $1 per mile passanger to arrive.

Bonanza Pilot said...

Airtaximan....it is even worse.
I assume they mean 20 minutes on the ground (in the lovely FL summer weather) and don't count the time for decent and an approach...and then another takeoff and climb to (non-rvsm) altitude.

Jetprop - good point about the 4 buck an hour guy...but how do you think the 4 buck an hour guy is going to feel when he not only has to wait for the 1 buck an hour guy to show up, but finds out that the guy weighs 275 pounds and is going to be wedged in next to him. Reminds me of that old commercial.... you paid "how much" for your ticket??

flightguy said...

Or-

How about the guy who thought he was flying direct, but has 2 - 3 more stops added during his flight. He may have another 4 hours added that was not expected due to the dynamics of the software.

JetProp Jockey said...

Another thought about being a $1 per mile customer.

It is aften presented that the real market is for the customer who does not want to drive 4 hours.

The problem is, that for the $1 per mile customer the will have:

30 minites to the airport
3:00 wait for the flight (could be 4)
30 minutes to get from plane to rental car
30 minutes to destination.

Total time spent 4:30 + $750 to DayJet + $80 for rental and gas

Time saved (:30)
Extra cost $830 - $100 gas = $730.

Basically, business travelers can't afford the time flexibility for the low price.

If they pay the high price - $2400 for a 300 mile trip the total time saved is less than 2 hours each way.

Many moons ago, AirTaxiMan and I realized that for a busy business person, it is cheaper and more efficient to hire a limo, work in the backseat for the duration of the trip and save money and time without having to share the space with a stranger.

Black Tulip said...

Stan,

Please put me down for 99 deliveries. I assume a 'delivered aircraft' has the same functionality as a Cessna Mustang - IFR, RVSM, weather radar and known ice - but nothing fancier such as FMS or autothrottles.

Black Tulip

airtaximan said...

JPJ,

while you seem to be right on the rest of the Dayjet issues... the 4 hour "mystery" factor will be settled UPFRONT.

When you reserve, they will agree to a price, bsed on flexibility...and then confirm at some point before you fly. You will not "wait 4 hours". You will need 4 hour flexibility in your schedule (a waste of time, a vacation, not buiness?). Or, you need to plan to meet someone else "flexibly" withi 4 hours or so from a preferred tim.

This MIGHT work, for some folks... but they would have to confirm "when" you fly before the flight, so you can plan your meeting.

1 day in advance will be ify... 2 days confirmation in advance will be OK... for some. IMHO.

I think its a pricng ploy - no one who values their time, enough to pay any amount for Dayjet would agree to a fudge facto in their schedule of 4 hours. So, in reality, $1-$4 is really $3-$4.

Lastly, the actual reliability of the service, with a stop, small plane weather issues, etc.. is probably going to create problems for these guys who value their time anyways.

"I'm sorry Judge... I tried to fly Dayjet for his hearing, and a freak storm brewed up over Gainsville where we had to make a stop. We had to wait 2 hours on the ground to take off again... can we please reschedule the hearing."

...I lost the contract...I flew Dayjet

...I missed my charity event t-time (but the golf clubs made it there - I sent them fedex the day before)... can you please have someone fedex them back to me, ASAP!

Eric said...

Plus, on top of all the other issues, DayJet will be having to test the "designed for high cycle" statement made by Eclipse in their sales pitch. If these things are making stops every 100-300 miles, how many legs are they going to be flying?

How many times is/are the:

-- the cabin door being opened and closed?
-- Engines started and stopped?
-- Gear/Flaps being extended/retracted?

You guys can think of other ones. Secondly, how are they paying their pilots? Is it just salary? Because if it's by the block hour and you're spending all your time runnning receiving, before start, after start, before takeoff, after landing, and parking checklists you're going to have some pretty freakin' unproductive trips for these guys. Sure, they're home every night but your average retired 747 CA wants some cruise time to relax and increase his/her day-trip productivity. Maybe I just think of these labor issues because I work a flying job... but it'll be an issue at some point.
--

FreedomsJamtarts said...

Planes can make up to one stop to pick up other passengers, he said, but agree to stay no longer than 20 minutes."

I had a planned 20 stop in a CJ2 in Geneva to drop off one other pax in April. Unfortunately the pilot/dispatcher who filed the onward leg stuffed up UTC/Local and we had to wait 2:40 for the onward slot. We sure were pissed off, and we were not paying for it, and the guy was part of our team.

Has anyone here consistantly managed 20 minute turn arounds without a low cost carrier check in getting everyone lined up to go?

Just need the guy to turn up with a normal airline suitcase and start discussing his options with the pilot and that plan failed.

a37pilot said...

New Air Taxi comes to Florida

Flight to begin, soon


BY UGOTTO B. KIDDING
THE FLORIDA SHADE


GAINESVILLE- A another new air-taxi service has just announced plans to begin operations in Florida.

Fly By Night jets will pick up travelers outside the fence of several yet to be announced airports in Florida.

The big difference between the company’s “per seat, on demand” flights and other recently announced air taxis in the Sunshine state is cost. Fly By Night costs more, a lot more.

Officals at FBN speaking on the condition of anonymity say they want to take the yet untried air taxi business to a new level. “ We saw our competition preparing to charge high prices for unreliable service in marginal aircraft and thought we can do better, we’ll charge obnoxiously high prices”, said one of the principles.

“It’s all about optimization, we aren’t really an aircraft operator or a computer company, or really a company at all , were just a bunch of guys who want to make some quick bucks”, said another. We just look at what the other guys say and come up with something that’s a little more over the top. For example, take their ant farmer Russian scientists that figure out the scheduling, we have some of those guys too, but we got them to let the ants out of the farm so they could run around. Now that’s what I call disruptive.

Asked about their plan to blanket the skies with the revolutionary Albuquerque wonder jet and details on there recently announced order for 2500 jets, the director of operations replied, “ We figured why not, I mean where else can you get a 2 million dollar jet with only a $25 deposit. We were going to order 5000 but we didn’t want to appear ostentatious “.

FBN recently announced they had received $60 million in start up financing from a group of investors who admittedly didn’t really know what an air taxi was but thought anything with little jet airplanes had to be “cool”. FNB CFO, Dewy Cheatum, commented, “They bought the whole program, hook line and VLJ. It plays into our strategy of get their confidence, get their trust, and get their money, but most of all, get the money”. "It's really not about the flying as much as it is about blowing the investors money"

Florida aviation officials when asked about airport traffic congestion concerns with so many small aircraft moving around said, “Whatever, we’ll leave it to the operators to figure it out. We’re just glad to have another black hole to throw some of the state tax dollars into”.

cj3driver said...

There’s no way a DayJet customer pays $3,200.00 for a round trip from Boca to Pensacola and then agrees to a 20 min. stop on the way to pick-up a stranger. I honestly believe the market for that type of service, with those conditions, is small.

My opinion is, the DayJet model is doomed to failure. The market is too small, the service area is too small, the number of DayPorts too small and the jet too small. Granted, the service area and number of DayPorts can be expanded, but the plane and Market (at the posted prices) are very limited and fixed. These early limitations will cause the market, and thus the number of DayPorts to remain small and the rapid demise of DayJet.

The premise of an air taxi is convenient point to point transportation. Just like an auto taxi or limo.

Traditional charter attempts to fill this market, but it is very costly due to the “dead leg”, the empty flight to pick up the customer, and the empty flight back to base. Traditional charter operators fly to and from the closest airport to your ultimate destination. Not, to potentially inconvenient ports. DayJet attempts to solve this problem with DayStops, but the rate will be higher that of traditional charter. …I’m very sure there will be a traditional charter market for the Eclipse, but the market will dictate an hourly rate for the E500 that is substantially below the cost to charter a Citation or a multitude of other larger aircraft. ...Less than $1,500 per hour. DayJet can not operate at a profit for $1,500 per hour. The reason? Most charter operators do not own the aircraft they operate. They are not responsible for the maintenance cost, overhead (for the aircraft), carrying cost (cost of capital) and depreciation. These aircraft are generally owned by another entity and are place in charter for multiple reasons including, tax benefits, or just to generate some income to defray cost for the owner. The purpose of owning the jet, is not to generate a profit from charter revenue, but for their own use. The fractional companies also do this to generate additional revenue.

The ticket costs on an airline are relatively cheap, but you must fly large airport to large airport on “their” schedule, not necessarily close to your ultimate destination, on a potentially inconvenient schedule, the travel is not private, and there are security and check in and arrival hassles.

DayJet is trying to bridge the gap between charter and airline. A noble and novel idea. But DayPorts may not be convenient to your destination (similar to airline). The price, in order to fit your schedule, is very costly and it is not private (similar to an airline). The Profitability of DayJet is base on seat occupancy, not hours flown (similar to an airline). So, this type of service comes down to cost per seat/mile. The Eclipse airplane is too small and too expensive per mile for a “seat per mile” type of service. DayJet’s basis for service is DayPort to DayPort, similar to an airline. DayJet is foolish not to use larger aircraft. I’m not talking 737, but at least 8-10 comfortable seats. The per mile cost will go up only 25% – 30%, but potential profit per trip goes up by 100% to 500%. Larger aircraft (more seat capacity) is the only way to get cost/seat mile down, unless you go to small pistons like Cirrus.

There is always a cost/benefit trade-off. But DayJets =

1. Not a private “exclusive” flight.
2. The customer waits for the aircraft, instead of the aircraft waiting for customer.
3. The cost for last minute is greater than private charter.
4. The “cost effective” service is limited to a party of one.
5. The market is limited to people originating at a DayPort city… or its not cost effective.
6. The destination is limited to those destined for a DayPort city… same reason.
7. No potty… even if its not used, just knowing its there for emergency is reassuring.
8. The shear tiny size of the airplane will “turn-off” some people.
9. No meaningfull room for baggage, presentation items, samples, ect.. and then for 3 passengers?
10. 20 minute stop (unrealistic, more like 45 min ave.)
11. Exclusive charter to where you really wanted to go on DayJet, costs more that traditional charter, in a much smaller jet… and will they wait for you?
12. The aircraft is not “cabin class”… refreshments, hot coffee, catering, meaningfull reclining seats, legroom, work table, lav. Airshow map, video, etc..

The only thing DayJet has going for it is the elusive $1 per mile flight….and I’m quite sure they won’t stay in business on those economics.

Eclipse depends on DayJet, or other similar “air-taxi” ventures, in order to produce in volume and be able to sell Twin-Jets for 1.8 million.

The DayJet model will fail and Eclipse will be forced to raise the price of the E500, or never give the investors back the $1 billion already spent, not to mention a return on investment.

Sorry for the long post… got carried away.

Algernon said...

53 actually delivered and registered, working aircraft that will be scrapped after it's all said and done.

In February 2008.

Only then, will ~I~ be amused.

mouse said...

What's time? Does the :20 minutes include dumping the cabin so the baggage can be loaded behind the seats? Hope it's not during one of the daily rain showers.

Ooops, no air-conditioner either since the engines have to be shutdown for the pax to get on or off. And the FBO/DayPort provider will not plug in ground power or an A/C duct for such a short interval or to a customer who buys little or no fuel.

Now lets calculate out the maintenance costs of excessive cycles for these little "stops" along the way, or the chance to scrub the flight prior to it's final destination due to a problem at the interim stop.

Wonder what the optimum engine restart time (cool-down or pre-start) temp limits/time limits are?

At least the stop will let you drain your bladder... Although the kind of "pissed off" customers is most likely not going to be lav related...