Sunday, June 17, 2007

No News is Good News

Well maybe not.

What happened to the
monthly newsletter from Mike Press. While his reports were certainly slanted towards the favorable aspects of the Eclipse program, he didn't hesitate in adding a cautionary note here and there. His last was on April 4, the eighth in a series. Around April 20. Mike took delivery of Eclipse serial 004, went to ground school, got his type rating and as we heard, took his dog Bear for a ride.

During the delivery and training process, he spent a lot of time in ABQ. One would expect that he would have gained some insight into the program and would have lots to write about for a May report. Didn't happen. Perhaps it was a case of, if you can't write anything good, maybe better to not write anything.

One thing I was hoping Mike would address was an issue I commented on back on May 19th:

"I have also heard that within the last couple of weeks, a manufacturing defect has been found in a major airframe ass'y which may result in removal and replacement of the ass'y. I was not able to learn how many units will be affected."

The first source described an error in assembling the horizontal stabilizer that caused some minor (though unacceptable) internal damage in some number of units and that these assemblies would need to be replaced. According to this source, the FAA was considering whether an AD was necessary since only a few airplanes had been delivered and that most were in control of the company anyway.


Later, two other independent sources confirmed quality problems with the horizontal and a fourth, mentioned an earlier problem that he thought had been corrected by a design change.

If Mike's airplane was affected by this problem, or knew about the situation, he might tell us more. He may yet, we wait for newsletter # 9. One of Mike's favorite topics was reporting the prices he was seeing in the re-sale market. Typically, up in the $1.7 to 1.8m for early positions. In absence of Mike's report, here is one I recently received:


"A position in the first 100 serial numbers recently sold for $1,55m INCLUSIVE of CPI and fully spec'd. At that price the plane took 7 months to sell. The market for these little shit boxes is very soft. IF the market is recognizing the value of the plane as $1,55m WITH CPI and fully spec'd, then Eclipse is on a ride for a beating second to none."

54 comments:

Algernon said...

Well, it still remains to be seen.

How many of these idiots are going to continue to be blinded, or sucked up to, and keep this pipe dream/Ponzi scheme going ?

AD's, other stuff going awry. Damage not found during the CoA inspection ? Why? Not allowed to look in any panels.

Just goes to show this country is still the stagnant cesspool of the rich getting richer off of the little guy. No one cares, as long as the numbers add up.

Algernon said...

I am just so disgusted with the federal bureacracy for allowing this to go on. Oh yea, they are able to be bought off, just like those stupid deposit holders.

Money rules, and blinds most all to the truth. I hope no one loses anything or anyone dear to this idiotic premise that this comany is actually building "aircraft".

While I'm at it, I would like to say I am extremely disappointed in the viewpoints around here. I don't want this company to "make it".

I don't want anymore of these paper airplanes to fly. They all need to be grounded and scrapped. Vern Raburn needs to be put in jail, to take Ken Lay's place.

This company needs to fail, and fail BIG, and the leftovers need to "go away".

Then all those people in ABQ can move away and go to work for Piper.

Interesting what will happen to all the infrastructure Billy Boy paid for, as it sits idle and rots.

Up the Man !

Sweet Algernon

Ken Meyer said...

Why not just let Mike speak for himself? Here are his recent words on the state of the market:

"I am remiss in not posting an updated market analysis, but have been so busy with demo’s and sales I have not had time to sit down and write one.

"Needless to say the market is active. Prices and sales are strong. Not sure how the AD will affect this, but if the pitot tube issue is resolved quickly that should help."

Ken

Niner Zulu said...

Stan - with all due respect, I have to agree with Ken. The lack of a report by Mike Press is not a report in itself. He was pretty consistent with his market reports prior to taking delivery of s/n 4, but 2 weeks in ABQ for training and a lot of flying since probably took away some of the free time he had to sit down and think about what he was going to write. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt - we'll probably hear something from him soon.

Algernon, I know three deposit holders personally and I can assure you they are anything but stupid. One is a genious, one is a very successful entrepeneur, and the other placed a deposit but put it up for sale and has probaby made a profit on it by now. To call them stupid is, well, just plain stupid.

Anyway, I thought I was a cynical person but you have me beat by a long shot ;-). You need to lighten up - not everyone out there is trying to screw the little guy. I would like to see Eclipse make it for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is the fact that there are a lot of employees that work for Eclipse that have families they need to provide for and are trying to build the best airplane they can. Frankly, I think the FAA certification process in this country is way to onerous anyway - it stifles cutting edge technology and favors companies with big bucks more than big ideas.

Gunner said...

Mike Press said:
"Not sure how the AD will affect [prices]..."

Hmmmm, let's think about this.
.
.
Tic-Toc. Tic-Toc
.
.
Ok, I'm done. Should cause prices to rise, yup.

Mike Press said:
"...if the pitot tube issue is resolved quickly that should help."

And what about the next surprise to surface from this box of CrackerJacks? Does anyone really believe the Pitot problem is the last or most serious defect in design?

Did Mike provide any insight into his reasons for blocking Baby from FlightAware? That's an interesting statement right there: Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
Gunner

fred said...

yep gunner , you made a point ....

this (sad) story seems to be invaded by speculators ....

it would be the reason why they don't give a damn if the flying pan is not flying ...!!

always the same story : some peoples believe themselves clever enough (and most important :informed !) to take a ride on a trend .... (they aren't any stupid , it's just the way it works ...)

they buy positions , in the hope that the trend will be so much upward , they will be able to sell it back (with substancials benefits) for an early delivery to a really interested personn ... (which didn't have the gutts to do it before ...??)

thru making a buzz on subject , thru bringing new peoples into the thing , thru bringing some more money into the matter , leading a managment to overeact by annoucing blattant lies in order to keep the momentum .....

think it's a joke ?? not at all ! look back on Dotcom ... exactly what did happen , start-up promising huge benefits to raise money , words spread around , cash coming in like a river at rain season only to lead to a booming fiasco ...!! why ??? because no one kept in mind a very tiny thing = "can you proove me you're gonna make benefits at some points ..?" misleaded by an army of advisers (banks , stocks sellers ...) whom didn't care about the thing = if you were loosing or making money , they were still getting paid ...!!!

more recently , housing was the trend , lots of flats changed owners few times a week ...! only for the sake of money ... nothing else ...!

so it's about money ? fine , but do not expect pity for speculators ...!

as for others (the one whom have been really dreaming about themselves flying the pan ) they should try to inform themself very well directly from managment !!

no need to clever or stupid , just ask yourself 2 questions : " do i need it? " & "can i afford to loose ?" and most important never do something because every talks about ... if every talks about = it's already much too late !!

so in the question "will AD have a negative impact on position price ?" no real answer here ...

as it solely depends on how much fuss both managment and already positions holders can make to keep the momentum .....!!! ;-))

(like a new order of 50.000 units for zimbabwe , or that they secure a 2 trillions line of credit to finish devellopemnt ....)

Gunner said...

Fred-
I'm not knocking Mike Press. He's provided solid insight and has been pretty straight-forward. He's an accomplished pilot and has put his money where his mouth is.

Guys like Mike deserve the jet they paid for; unfortunately, this project has been progressing backward since January 1. Personally, I don't blame him for blocking view of his plane; it's an embarrassing situation and he is not to blame. It didn't have to be this way.
Gunner

fred said...

gunner ...

i am not blaming mike or anybody else ....

i don't know mike , so i won't juge or say anything about the matter ...

just that from a totally outside point of view , it looks like a new dot.com or the like ....

i really wonder how many of the position holder do have already a pilot licence , thru making it quite clear why they are around ...

then explaining why they still are believers ....!!!

it's quite difficult for anybody to face the thruth and to say to yourself "i've been done"

fred said...

an other curious thing about eclipse :

one E500 has been to a airshow in europ , in three different events : Cannes (france) fredrischaffen (Germany) and an other in swiss ....

but why do they miss the most important event ; salon du bourget ??

is that they haven't anything to show (then how to bring new customers to be able to mass-product ???) or is that for the simple fact Le Bourget airshow is mainly for real pros whom would have spotted all "black spot" in the baby pretty easily ??

FlightCenter said...

One year ago – The word from Vern

I've attached a few excerpts from a letter sent by Vern to Eclipse 500 depositors dated June 23, 2006.

"After years of persevering and overcoming many obstacles, we are on the verge of gaining FAA Certification of the best jet the world has ever seen, at an unbelievable value proposition for our customers. The Eclipse 500 Type Certificate is only a few weeks away. Our target certification date assumes that all suppliers will meet their schedule commitments. The jet we deliver will be certified for day/night, IFR/VFR flight with the full envelope available. In addition, the aircraft will be certified for single pilot and RVSM operations.

This is not the jet we all envisioned when we started the program. It’s much, much better. Beyond the obvious improvement in engines, other upgrades and enhancements have been made as the Eclipse 500 program evolved over the past six years. You will enjoy unprecedented aircraft integration, airline-like reliability, an unmatched training experience and a comprehensive product support plan that our competitors are already trying to copy.

Sometimes, developing something as complex as an aircraft with Eclipse’s level of aircraft integration requires trade-offs. The Eclipse team has been forced to make some hard decisions about what will ultimately provide customers with the best overall aircraft value, without cost and schedule changes.

To accommodate many necessary changes in our production ramp schedule, we have shifted some customer’s delivery dates. Some of the effects will be positive, and yet a few customers will move back slightly. In any case, the maximum delivery change to any customer will be three months.

The Eclipse 500 still maintains its lead as the best value proposition in the history of general aviation.

Best regards,
Vern Raburn
President and CEO"

FlightCenter said...

One year ago from Mike McConnell.

The following are excerpts from Mike McConnell’s letter to Eclipse 500 depositors dated June 23, 2006.

"As one of our first customers to take delivery of your Eclipse 500 after FAA Type Certification (TC), we know that you are excited about getting your incredible new jet. Accordingly, we want to prepare you with the necessary documents and to provide you additional information to make the final decisions for your aircraft.

Enclosed with this letter are:

Standard Equipment and Functionality Availability
Optional Equipment Availability
Pilot training letter from Don Taylor, VP Safety & Pilot Training

In order to achieve FAA Type Certification of the jet on schedule, some trade-offs were necessary, and we were unable to have all the avionics functionality as part of the initial type-certified aircraft. The enclosed table describes the functional capability which will be available at TC. This is only a temporary issue as most avionics functionality will be available at a later date in 2006 via software updates. These software updates will happen at no cost to you, either at your location or at an Eclipse Service Center.

As with any complex aircraft development, additional optional equipment and functionality is normally released over the 6 to 9 months after initial type certification. The Eclipse organization is dedicated to making your Eclipse 500 ownership experience the best in the industry.

Warmest regards,
Mike McConnell
Vice President"

The standard and optional equipment functionality and availability tables sent by Mike McConnell can be found by clicking the following link.
Eclipse 500 Standard and Optional Equipment Availability

JetProp Jockey said...

I'm not sure if this was reported before - if so - sorry for the repeat.

Copied from AV Web today

The FAA this week is expected to issue the first Airworthiness Directive (AD) for the Eclipse 500 that will temporarily limit all flights in the very light jets to day visual flight rules to ensure flight conditions that do not allow the moisture in the pitot/AOA system to freeze. Eclipse says it has developed a solution to the problem but doesn't expect it to be certified by the FAA until the middle of next month. The fix includes changes to the internal pitot tubing routing to "provide positive drainage to a low point in the system," and Eclipse plans to begin retrofitting the entire fleet immediately after certification via a Service Bulletin. According to Eclipse, the AD limitations are more restrictive than the previous FAA-approved restriction, which required aircraft operations to be temporarily restrained to flights in visual meteorological conditions with an Eclipse company pilot or Eclipse-trained mentor pilot on board. "As always, our primary concern is for the safety of our customers, and the integrity of all Eclipse 500 aircraft," Eclipse President and CEO Vern Raburn said in a letter to customers. "We are working diligently to remove this limitation and resume complete flight operations as fast as physically possible."

End of Quote

It was April 10 that the pitot problem was reported with a simple solution expected in "weeks"

Now they expect the solution to be certified by "mid next month".

That adds up to almost 13 weeks, assuming it happens mid July. Can you imagine how far off the projections for certification of the air mods and Panel mods might be?

airtaximan said...

regarding Mike Press...

Silence over a period where he would normally have provided 2 reports, is well... indicative.

Of what? who knows. Perhaps he's caught the e-bug. The "who know's what THAT means, bug".

He seems like a traight up guy, and no amount of flying eliminates his ability to provide the news letter.

Perhaps it was not working as a marketing tool, so he gave it up?

Perhaps he now knows too much, and his attorneys told him to stop writing?

Perhaps e-clips put the cone-of-silence on him, as well?

I wonder how Randall Sandada's 15 minutes of fame played out - how are all the customers over there enjoying their "flying club"?

Who knows?

While I agree it seems pretty harsh to speculate, the previous cold-hard speculations regarding "what does it mean" ended up "right on the money".

The production "slow down" from the plane or two a week delivered (that have been in production for a year now) to fewer planes delivered, is well...telling. What does it mean? Who knows?!

I speculate it means things are getting worse, not better.

Stan, if you are right about the tail, this is major. How long have they known? Who knows? What does it really mean? Who knows?

But we all really do know. And its bad.

Gunner said...

JPJ-
I think it gets worse. The AIN piece said that Eclipse won't even be submitting paperwork to the FAA until the end of June. Let's review:

- This is a new aircraft company whose entire fleet is grounded for all practical purposes.

- They announced this problem over two months ago, promising "weeks" for a fix.

- We've been told the solution was found how many times since then?

- Despite the fact that they are at a stage where their staff would weigh heavily toward engineers, FAA liaisons and technical writers, they require WEEKS to submit the paperwork?

I don't think so.
Gunner

ColdWetMackarelofReality said...

An AD is issued when the FAA can not be convinced that the OEM (or in this case OEnM) will ensure all effected aircraft will be fixed.

Because there are operational issues, and because Eclipse is not flying all the planes, the AD is the only rational solution to ensure that the WonderJet does not get in over its' head.

One wonders why it took so long for this to happen? If Eclipse notified the FAA when the issue was found the discussion about operations should have occurred right there and the decision of AD or no-AD should have happened.

Could be that in trying to duplicate the issue they discovered another issue, or could be they did not fully understand it initially and when they explained the full situation the FAA decided to release an AD.

One also wonders why having an Eclipse pilot or Mentor pilot on board was supposed to reduce risk. If all airspeed indications are effected, there is no easy way to identify the misleading data (isn't that EFIS design 101). The more expected pilot is, I guess, expected to put the picture together faster than the neophyte jet-jockey.

Of course, if there was a completely independent back-up system, say mechanical in nature, the bad data would be easy to identify as part of a normal crosscheck.

As for a pitot design that did not feature an adequate low-point for condensation and drainage, that qualifies for Amateur Hour at the Apollo - I mean, duuuuuuuuuhhhh!

How many more little gems like this are, pardon the pun, waiting in the wings?

airtaximan said...

Gunner,

You have it all wrong.

The problem is that the pitot icing condition on the e-500 is so RARE that they have had a lot of problems "re-creating" it. This makes finidng a fix, and proving it to the FAA very, very difficult. Its a lot rarer than they expected, and a lot harder to recreate. The fix is finished - has been for a long, long time. Its just paperwork.

Sound familiar?

Stan Blankenship said...

ATM,

I agree on the legal issue vis-a-vis Mike Press.

Brokers in Real Estate are governed by laws requiring full disclosure of all known problems related to the property being sold. In principle, why should airplanes be different?

If Eclipse goes belly up, buyers who used Mike's services and lose their deposits might rightfully ask, "What did you know, and when did you know it?"

Apart from the legal issues, Mike's has high visibility in the Eclipse program, his long term reputation will be inextricably linked with the outcome, whether good or bad.

FlightCenter said...

The short summary of the commitments Eclipse made for Eclipse 500 functionality in the Mike McConnell letter dated 6/23/2006 were as follows:

FMS - 11/06
Autopilot - at TC
Radar - 11/06
Dual GPS, IFR approach certified - 11/06
Autothrottle - 3/07
RVSM group certified - at TC
FIKI - 12/06
Lavatory - 12/06
Refreshment Center - 12/06
Part 135 - 11/06
Int'l Ops - 3/07
Stormscope - 3/07
Skywatch - 3/07
TAWS - 3/07
Rad Alt - 3/07


While Eclipse did deliver an autopilot at TC, it did not meet specifications and is only capable of altitude and pitch hold.

Other than the autopilot, I'm not aware of Eclipse meeting any of these commitments. I believe all of these items are still left as open IOUs.

As of right now, they are between 3 to 6 months late (and counting) versus each of the revised commitments provided 1 year ago.

Is anyone aware more recent communications regarding delivery of these outstanding items?

mirage00 said...

Mike's has high visibility in the Eclipse program, his long term reputation will be inextricably linked with the outcome, whether good or bad.

As will yours Stan...I anxiously await your serving of "Humble Pie".

I remain amused...

double 00
Proud member of the drive-by club.

ColdWetMackarelofReality said...

Zero,

Care to share with the class a SINGLE commitment made by Eclipse that has been met AS PROMISED?

Price - NOPE
Schedule - NOPE
Weight - NOPE
Speed - NOPE
Range - NOPE
FMS - NOPE
Fully Functioning Autopilot - NOPE
Moving Map GPS - NOPE
FIKI - NOPE
Autothrottle - NOPE
Radar - NOPE
Dual GPS, IFR approach certified - NOPE
Lavatory - NOPE
Refreshment Center - NOPE
Part 135 - NOPE
Int'l Ops - NOPE
Stormscope - NOPE
Skywatch - NOPE
TAWS - NOPE
Rad Alt - NOPE

Revised Price - NOPE
Revised Schedule - NOPE
Revised Weight - NOPE
Revised Speed - NOPE
Revised Range - NOPE

Durability - NOPE
Reliability - NOPE

JetINComplete - NOPE

Re-revised schedule - NOPE

NAME ONE PROMISE, COMMITMENT OR IOU MET AS PROMISED.

And then compare to the record of accuracy contained herein re: AOPA Absence, Avidyne, New Model, New Money, predicted difficulty in certifying any of the MANY needed changes.

But hey, you Eclipse employees get all the free pop you can drink, so ya got that goin' for you.

FlightCenter said...

A short summary of Eclipse delivery data - 18 aircraft have been delivered according to the FAA registration database and the "in-process" submission data published on the web.

Serial #20 and #21 were delivered to DayJet on 6/14 based on the date the paperwork was submitted to the FAA. Neither aircraft has been officially registered to the new owners or been issued a CofA as of today.

Both Ken Meyer and Lloyd stated on this blog that serial #20 was delivered on 5/30. If so, it would be interesting to understand how the FAA database could show that submission of paperwork didn't occur until 6/14. In the larger scheme of things, this seems like a rounding error.

2 other private owners were registered as well.

Based on this data, Eclipse has delivered 6 aircraft so far in the month of June.

Cessna has also delivered another Mustang and now has 7 aircraft listed as registered to new owners. This does not include "in-process" submission data.

ColdWetMackarelofReality said...

Thanks for the update FC.

Let us take a quick look at performance re: 'deliveries' for the Maxwell Smart Aircraft Company ("Missed it by that much").

Projected vs Actual:
Q1 12 -- 2
Q2 59 -- 15
Q3 120
Q4 211

TOTAL projected 71 Year-to-date -- Actual Year-to-Date - 17 Delivered or 'in-process'. Hmmm, maybe it is dislexia, 17, 71, looks the same.

With 2 weeks remaning in the quarter, Eclipse could pull off a miracle and deliver another 44 aircraft by the 30th (only 3.4 per day).

The Faithful Following should be encourage that the trend is improving. Q1 deliveries were only 17% of projected, while Q2 is already at 25%. Improving from being off by a factor of 6 to a factor of 4, in a quarter, not bad (snickering).

With performance issues like that I think there may be a market for the corporate equivalent of Enzyte, maybe call it E-zyte.

Stan Blankenship said...

mirage00 quoting my comment:

Mike's has high visibility in the Eclipse program, his long term reputation will be inextricably linked with the outcome, whether good or bad.

Said:

As will yours Stan...I anxiously await your serving of "Humble Pie".

Double zero (as in nothing of substance),

No argument here except, my customers do not depend on what I write.

As to my reputation, it was best stated by Jim Griswold, father of the Piper Malibu when he said several years ago, "Stan's the only guy I know who is more opinionated than me."

mirage00 said...

No argument here except, my customers do not depend on what I write.

Now that sure gives credibility to your blog. Thanks for the clarification Stan.

I remain amused...

double 00

Gunner said...

Amusement is a Good Thing.
It helps provide Solace.

Ohhh, I like it....the eagerly awaited Eclipse single engine jet entry. It could be named the Sole Ace, Solace for short! ;-)

Gunner

fred said...

##If Eclipse goes belly up## (quoted from earlier post)

looking on how things are going , i wouldn't say that ...

i'd rather say WHEN ... ! ;-))

if you take into consideration what was posted : " an early position was sold for 1.55 M US$ including cpi and full specs , it took 7 months to be sold "

it just mean one thing : brand new E500 (as new for never been flown yet) are sold cheapper than factory annouced price ...!

in economic matters , prices are very easy to define = it is the sum somebody is ABLE and WILLING to pay for a said thing ... (both conditions have to be present)

if you have a crapy car sitting in your backyard for the last 10 years , it's worthless ....!

if a guy is crazy enough to offer you a million $ for it (and on the condition he really has that kind of money ) the value is 1 million !

if you have a brand new BMW , want to sell it for XXXXXX $ and nobody want to buy it for this money = the car has a value of 0 (or much less than you think ...)

so if something sold 1.8M can be found sold 1.55M , either factory prices are too high ( but in that case EA is chained to mass-production to make benefits , how are they going to do it ???)

or customer starts to run out of trust ...

in both cases , you know the result ....

an other thing : i have been working 2 years in Luxembourg , still have a good buddy working there , asked him today : " what kind of a bank in Luxembourg would lend 78 US$M for buying planes not flying yet supposed to be used in an impropable market ?"

(etirc has ordered 120 units at 650.000 US$ d├ęposit each = 78M )

the answer came as : " the only thing a banker here would tell you is #the cell in the lunatic assilyum you're going to be in any minutes now , would you prefer it pink or blue # "

cj3driver said...

Ken said;
"Why not just let Mike speak for himself? Here are his recent words on the state of the market:

"I am remiss in not posting ...""

Ken,

Where did you get this... speaking for yourself?

Ken Meyer said...

CJ3 wrote,


"Where did you get this... speaking for yourself?"

Owner's forum.

Ken

cj3driver said...

Thanks Ken,

cj3driver said...

Mustang #12 N443HC just left IND direct to ORL, over 900NM @ FL370 and 357KTS GS. It appears they did an acceptance flight earier today, and I presume they are flying home.

Stan Blankenship said...

Time to get back on topic.

Had a couple of newbies post under the radar.

Pain Stewart said...
Tisk, Tisk, Stanley Flogginship.

What is behind the motivation of your blog?

It appears you and your former buddies at Lear Jet are looking over your collective shoulders at an up and coming company that may finally put the nail in the coffin of a formally great company.

It appears that you are infected by the arrogance that has afflicted Lear Jet for the last 20 years.

Personally, I think you should practice more humility. I wonder if Stanley Flogginship could take an aircraft company from concept to production in 6 years, or is destined to stand and watch on the sidelines as someone better and more talented then you lives out their dream?

11:52 PM, June 18, 2007

Charles Tym said...
As a former purchaser of a new Cessna SE A/C, I can not believe what a bunch of wankers post to this site - apart from Ken Meyer and a few others realists.

My new Cessna SE had loads of ADs and it took Cessna nearly 12 months to get the production process any where near right. I still love my Cessna though. In the first few hundred units produced in 97/98 Cessna could not even get the rivets in the right places.

EA are bringing a great new product to the market and I am truly amazed that any one is suprised they are experiencing teething problems big or small.

I doubt most of the subsrcibers to his site even fly an aircraft esp the likes of ATM, Gunner, ColdWetWanker.

I say good on Eclipse for having a go. I also say the naysayers have too much time on their hands.

First and last post.

Go Eclipse !!!

2:58 AM, June 19, 2007

ExEclipser said...

Hmmm... No mention lately of N115DJ's two flights yesterday from ABQ to GNV. Both cruised at FL350, filed /W and climbed an average of 1000 fpm to get there.

Ken's right about Stan's post - Mike is too busy flying his E500 to contribute.

Tempo said...

A few shotgun comments from an interested bystander. I’ve been viewing the blog for the past few weeks and would like to contribute to the morass.

Stan Said:

Pain Stewart said...
Tisk, Tisk, Stanley Flogginship.

What is behind the motivation of your blog?

It appears you and your former buddies at Lear Jet are looking over your collective shoulders at an up and coming company that may finally put the nail in the coffin of a formally great company.

It appears that you are infected by the arrogance that has afflicted Lear Jet for the last 20 years.

Personally, I think you should practice more humility. I wonder if Stanley Flogginship could take an aircraft company from concept to production in 6 years, or is destined to stand and watch on the sidelines as someone better and more talented then you lives out their dream?

Need to remind Pain that Eclipse, by its own admission, it is not a manufacturer. It is an assembler and without a supply base of individuals like Stan, Eclipse would still have an empty building. Also, I believe the concept to almost production is closer to 9 years. (Cessna did the Mustang is less than 4). Without companies like Stan’s, not many dreams would be realized.

Regarding 00 – Until he has something substantial to offer, I ignore him. He reminds me of the kindergartner who tries to win an argument by yelling louder.

mirage00 said...

Regarding 00 – Until he has something substantial to offer, I ignore him. He reminds me of the kindergartner who tries to win an argument by yelling louder.

Obviously you don't ignore my posts; otherwise you wouldn’t have acknowledged them.

Substantial??? Like what? A rebuttal to the Washington conspiracy theory that Stan discusses. How about his post regarding the "Major Manufacturing Design Flaw"? Maybe I should respond to the rediculous fictional posts that appear now daily on this blog?

When something of substance is posted, I will respond. Until then, no yelling, just laughing.


I remain amused...

double 00

airtaximan said...

..Perhaps some substance..

"The company has seven Eclipse 500s and is expecting delivery of two more soon. The start date for regular service was delayed by questions about an avionics unit on the aircraft. Mr. Iacobucci said that Eclipse was working with the unit’s manufacturer to address concerns raised by the Federal Aviation Administration.

Once that issue is resolved, he said he expected service to begin late next month or in early August, when he says he hopes DayJet will have 10 Eclipse 500s.

This is form the New York Times..
link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/19/business/19road.html?ex=1182916800&en=42da2b8195a6a073&ei=5070&emc=eta1

e-clips working with the FAA to address the concerns regarding the avionics???

airtaximan said...

telling?

"By the end of 2008, Mr. Iacobucci said he hoped to have 40 in Florida and the Southeast."

Gunner said...

Mirage-
You want substance? How about this:

January 1: Fully conforming aircraft, RVSM Capable with 1,000 to be produced in the next 12 months.

June 18: Handful of deliveries, effectively grounded due to loss of instruments in icing, no FIKI, No Avionics, No Part 135, No IFR Flight.

That's substantial, I'd say. The company is clearly progressing BACKWARD. YMMV and certainly does. But everyone needs a paycheck, I know.
Gunner

JetProp Jockey said...

I thought there were 3 interesting parts to the article.

1. A new problem with avionics?
2. The one person who thinks that using DayJet is a great logistical solution happens to be a lawyer who will bill his client for the cost of the trip plus a markup.
3. 40 aircraft by the end of 2008??? I would have thought the the DayJet deliveries would be near 200 by the end of 08.

airtaximan said...

JPJ,

The guy looks like a Persnal Injury Lawyer, and they usually suck up the cost and make tons of money on contingency. Their time IS money... it makes sense for them to use the service, especially given the numbers he's quoting regarding travel days.

I hope he has cases in one of 5 Florida Dayjet airports, though - whioch I somehow doubt. Most of their travel will be where the courts and people ARE!

Stan Blankenship said...

Double zero (as in nothing of substance),

Refresh my memory, where did I ever use the term:

"Major Manufacturing Design Flaw"?

FlightCenter said...

Execlipser,

Thanks for the post on 115DJ.

"No mention lately of N115DJ's two flights yesterday from ABQ to GNV. Both cruised at FL350, filed /W"

Executive summary - 115DJ filed RVSM without an FMS or a GPS and does not yet meet RNP standards.

It is an excellent achievement and Eclipse should get some credit here for its first official RVSM flight.


I assume that means that 115DJ has had the pitot static fix installed. I'm guessing that is one reason why it stayed in ABQ for the last few weeks after its delivery.

For those who don't know or remember all the slant codes - I've attached the table below.


ADVANCED RNAV WITH TRANSPONDER AND MODE C

/E
Flight Management System (FMS) with DME/DME and IRU position updating

/F
Flight Management System (FMS) with DME/DME position updating
/G
Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS), including GPS or WAAS, with enroute and terminal capability.

/R
Required Navigational Performance. The aircraft meets the RNP type prescribed for the route segment(s), route(s) and/or area concerned.




Reduced Vertical Separation Minimum (RVSM). Prior to conducting RVSM operations within the U.S., the operator must obtain authorization from the FAA or from the responsible authority, as appropriate.

/J
/E with RVSM

/K
/F with RVSM

/L
/G with RVSM

/Q
/R with RVSM

/W
RVSM

mirage00 said...

Stan Blankenship. 8:35am on May 19, 2007


I have also heard that within the last couple of weeks, a manufacturing defect has been found in a ,major airframe ass'y which may result in removal and replacement of the ass'y. I was not able to learn how many units will be affected.


While I misquoted your exact comment (my apologies!) your intent for the post was clearly recognized. Talk about "lack of substance".

I remain amused.

double 00

Ken Meyer said...

jetprop wrote,

"I thought there were 3 interesting parts to the article...

3. 40 aircraft by the end of 2008??? I would have thought the the DayJet deliveries would be near 200 by the end of 08."


They mentioned 40 Dayports, not 40 aircraft. If they have 40 Dayports in 18 months, that will represent a huge exponential growth rate for the company.

Ken

Stan Blankenship said...

Double zero (as in nothing of substance)

Apology accepted, now where did I ever use the term "conspiracy"?

JetProp Jockey said...

Flightcenter:

Assmuning the reports that an AD is going to be issued this week and will remain in effect until mid July when the fix is approved, the FL350 flights were made just under the wire. If the "fix" was installed, it still will not allow IFR flight until fix is approved.

Since the problem can be caused by freezing of water that is caused by condensation from the humid air on the ground, I would think it is possible that the AD could restrict flight above the freezing level.

JetProp Jockey said...

This is the paragraph from the article:

Once that issue is resolved, he said he expected service to begin late next month or in early August, when he says he hopes DayJet will have 10 Eclipse 500s. The company designated five Florida airports as its initial “Day Ports”: Boca Raton, Gainesville, Lakeland, Tallahassee and Pensacola. By the end of 2008, Mr. Iacobucci said he hoped to have 40 in Florida and the Southeast. End of Quote

The same paragraph refers to aircraft and dayports. I assume that you are correct, but the writing is not very clear.

Stan Blankenship said...

JetProp Jockey said...

"If the "fix" was installed, it still will not allow IFR flight until fix is approved."

If the "fix" isn't approved, how can they even install it on any airplane unless there is an "experimental" sign hung in the window?

mirage00 said...

Stan...

Do you really want to play this game? I never put the word "conspiracy" in quotes but here is what you said and the meaning of word if it helps. Looks like its 2-0 advantage mirage.

The infamous "GIT-R-DONE" post


Conspiracy : A conspiracy is an agreement between two or more persons to commit an illegal act or to achieve a legal objective through illegal means. The essence of a conspiracy is the agreement; and the perceived harm is the increased danger from concerted action.

I remain amused

double 00

Niner Zulu said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ColdWetMackarelofReality said...

For Charles Tym -

Coldwetmackarelofreality possesses:

A valid Commerical Pilot's License with Instrument Priveleges

PIC time in nearly 2 dozen different make\model fixed and rotary wing aircraft from ultralights to turbine aircraft.

I also have nearly 2 decades experience in Engineering and Management, spanning Part 23 and Part 25 aircraft.

Now who's the wanker you dolt?

Anyone care to answer my previous question naming a SINGLE Eclipse promise or commitment meant as promised?

Didn't think so.

airtaximan said...

you gotta admit, it pretty funny when ed refers to service to 40 airports (I checked his website, and he IS HOPING to have service to 40 airports in 18 months) and we misunderstand it to be 40 airplanes!

The reality is, 40 airplanes might be more like it. Actually, he can service 40 airports any time he wants - he does not need many planes. Just say: "we service 40 airports"... we have x planes.

Why is this such a big deal to him? Are the planes really on routes going between airports he brings online? Or are they truly going to where people need to go?

SOnds a little like "routes". Perhaps they've done something to change the regs regarding part135 and the maximum number of flights to the same airports in a given period of time.

I guess they have this covered...

cj3driver said...

Vern said:
"...Due to delays in production, the projected numbers for 2007 are roughly half of what we previously projected in 2007..."

I wonder which 07 projection he is reffering to? Half of 407 or half of 240?

airtaximan said...

In light of everything that happend and DID NOT happend over the last year..Vern's letter is very very sad.

..."to build the Eclipse 500 at an unprecedented high volume".. more than before - WOW! more than our current rate which is 15 per year. I'm happy now. Where do I send my money?

..."Primary assembly has demonstrated an improvement curve of over 200%" from what to what? Who cares. The statement is meaningless. From 15 to 30 per year? Why not provide real information instead of meaningless BS?

..."Final assembly time has been cut in half. Recent aircraft have completed wing attach, engine installation and systems installation in just under one month. Our current production rate is one aircraft every two days." WHAT? So, he's saying they can produce one plane every two days? Er, I mean "deliver" one plane every two day... OK, how many are in production, how many parts on order, and how many WILL you produce at the same time, taking a month to assemble major assemblies, to provide 2 planes per day? Why don't we see 2 planes per day, NOW? Why not? What's wrong?

..."Our plant managers worked closely with external, high volume industrial engineering consultants to determine where each function has improved its efficiency.".. IMROVED! wow! this is fantastic. Just out of curiousity, who planned the production line and processes, if you had to hire outside guys to help determine "impovements"? BS BS BS BS BS

..."We can paint a plane in 51 hours?" Was this the hold up? That's a lot of painted planes over the last year!


it goes on and on...

What is the holdup?
WHERE ARE THE FIXES?
WHERE ARE THE AVIONICS?

HOW MUCH INVENTORY DO YOU HAVE TO BUILD PLANES?

WHAT IS THE FILL RATE AND INVENTORY LEVELS OF THE SUPPLIERS?

Welcome to e-clips where somehow we are improving our manufacturing techniques by hundreds of percent according to ourside consultants, we deliver 15 planes over a one year production cycle, and yet, well...according tot he CEO, "we manufacture nothing!"

bottom line - please send MORE deposit money. I sweasr, even outside consultants (probably required by the quest for new financing) - you don't even have to trust Vern now - it's "outside consultants" saying (not really, read the BS again) we'll make 900 or so planes next year.

- look for request for 450 MORE deposits real soon... afterall, Dayjet needs their planes.

Algernon said...

Here's why there is no "transparency" in any dealings of the "Owners" club.

(Point-how can you be an "owner" of anything and not "own" it?)

Plain and simple, they were bought off. And, along with taking the "incentive offer" was the threat of not talking or showing the little scrap heap to any press, or anyone that could figure out that what they bought was a POS, and can't deliver HALF of what it says in the AFM.

They probably got a good deal on the POS as part of the "incentive package". Betcha it cost 'em only $850K with options, full dress out. Only thing is, it's gotta stay at home, or else the team of Eclipse lawyers will swoop down on them faster than a Mustang. Ha!

That is, until they can fly them over to Area 51 and make the modifications necessary to make them act like "real" aircraft.

Only the Skunkworks could make it better......